The Engagement Equation

Is employee engagement a top priority in your company? Adi Jani is a Senior Client Partner at Caburn Hope, an award-winning and market-leading employee communication agency. In this episode, Adi shares the ins and outs of employee communications and employee engagement, how to successfully land your organization’s message, and why it is important to try out different things in your life.

🎙️Talking Points:

(2:33) How to use storytelling in business

(7:53) Why companies should focus on engagement

(15:28) Career with a side hustle or entrepreneur with a day job?

(20:18) Finding purpose along the way

(26:44) Making time for your interests as an entrepreneur

(31:31) Dealing with failure in entrepreneurship

🔗Connect with Adi:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adijani 
• Website: https://caburnhope.co.uk/ 

🔗Connect with Tom:

• Instagram: https://instagram.com/therealtomfinn
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/therealtomfinn/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@therealtomfinn
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/therealtomfinn/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealtomfinn
• Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/therealtomfinn‍
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@therealtomfinn

​​​​Tom Finn:

Hey there and thanks for tuning into the Talent Empowerment podcast. We're here to help you love your job, unpack the tools and tactics of successful humans to guide you towards your own career empowerment. I am your purpose driven little host Tom Finn and on the show today, we have Adi Jani. Adi. Welcome to the show.

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Adi Jani:

Thank you, Tom, for having me. It's a privilege to be here.

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Tom Finn:

I'm thrilled to share your story and your journey. It's going to be really fun to get into all the details of your life and your life's work. And if you don't know Adi, let me just take a moment to introduce you to him. He's a senior partner at Caburn Hope and Adi's passion lies in empowering employees and redefining the customer experience to catalyze and organize growth within organizations. Now he's done some great work with industry giants. such as Coca-Cola, BT, Pfizer, Amazon, leading diverse projects on rewards and recognition, brand enhancement, corporate culture, and internal communication as well. So he's not just a consultant, he's also the founder and CEO of Gemcast Live, an app that offers high quality jewelry at affordable prices. He's done work as a producer and a filmmaker. My goodness gracious, you are a charcuterie plate of varied experiences, my friend.

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Adi Jani:

Thank you, thank you sir.

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Tom Finn:

Entrepreneurship, consulting, film, production. Tell me, how would you describe your past?

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Adi Jani:

Well, I mean, it goes back to when I was very young. I think I was like probably seven or eight where I basically wanted to be a filmmaker. That's kind of still like a hidden passion of mine making movies. I think what I really understood as I grew older is the fact that I love to tell stories and whatever form that takes. I just, you know, be it whether you’re presenting on TV, be it whether you’re actually directing a movie or, you know, consulting. Stories are something that connects all of us. We basically tell each other stories to make sure we understand each other better.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, I love that. I love the idea of storytelling. And I think we get it from the... producer, director, movie kind of standpoint, but how do we tell stories in business?

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Adi Jani:

So it’s interesting actually, my kind of specialty or the specialty of the company that I work for, it's called Caburn Hope, and we've been specializing in employee engagement. And the element of storytelling comes in to the entire communication spectrum within an organization. When any kind of communication is passed, there’s two forms really, if you think about it. There’s a transactional level of communication, and an emotional level of communication. They both need to work in synchronicity. Is that a word?

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Tom Finn:

I don't know.

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Adi Jani:

Synchromy.

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Tom Finn:

I don't know. Let's let's make it a word if you want to make it a word. We'll make it a word.

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Adi Jani:

Basically, they both need to work in harmony. That's a better word. In harmony in order for the message to land. So, for example, it's more like the left side of the brain and the right side of the brain. The left side of the brain is more analytical data driven. whereas the right side is more creative. But I think what makes us function as people is basically a combination of both. So we need to be analytical and we need to be creative as well. So just in the same way, the transactional information from HR, for example processes, implementation, data, content, all of that stuff that very business needs to pass down to the employee. Nine times out of 10, in my experience I’ve learned that people are so pigeonholed in their jobs that all of that kind of communication is just kind of goes into spam. Basically, they just ignore it. But the only way for it to land is if we make that interpersonal connection with individuals within the organization. That’s where the element of storytelling comes in. And I love that about my job.

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Tom Finn:

All right. So let's dig in a little bit. What you said makes sense to me. We've got transactional and we've got personal. Is that the best way to describe it?

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Adi Jani:

I'd say emotional.

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Tom Finn:

Emotional. Okay. So transactions and emotion. So how do we create communication, whether it's making a film or, uh, delivering an HR email, which was your example, right? How do we, how do we actually write that? Transactionals easy, right? We have to do this at this time. The company's changing this or that. whatever it might be, but how do we actually add the emotion or the personality to this?

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Adi Jani:

I think there's a level of research involved, obviously. We have to basically understand our audience. And this is where Caburn Hope especially approaches this kind of messaging in a very marketing sort of way, where the employees become our customers, essentially. So when it comes to marketing what do you do? You, before you implement any marketing strategy, you do your focus groups, you do your research, all of that stuff. The same thing needs to happen within an organization for internal communication. I'm not just saying for every single communication. I’m saying, get an overall idea of what your employee wants. And there's multiple ways of doing that, such as focus groups and such. And once you understand the need, the requirement, then you implement a strategy. So we have a three tiered approach. how we usually approach with communication of any kind, generally speaking of any kind. First is we inspire, second we engage, and third we inform. It's almost like a pyramid if you think about it. Inspire is at the top where we create the big picture inspiring, you know, feel good kind of communication. Then engage is where we connect with your employees, with your organization. Where we bet it through social media posts, surveys, etc, holding sessions, one-to-one sessions. And then once we’ve got their engagement, once we’ve got their buy-in, it’s a lot easier because they’ve got their, it’s almost like, you know, chance is a very difficult thing. People put their guards up straight away. So once you, once people are involved and engaged, they bring their guards down and it's a lot easier to deliver a message.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, well said. And then, so we inspire, we engage, we inform. The inform part, is that the tactical component?

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Adi Jani:

That's the I'd say the transactional part, but still it’s it needs to be weaved in a very personal way, but that message for the message to land and for example, I mean I just had a meeting today with a client who actually said, you know, we they invested heavily in a rewards kind of platform and the biggest problem that they were facing right now is getting their employees to start using that platform because obviously company spent millions and millions of dollars on this package for, you know, hundreds of thousands of people in their company and they’re getting about 3% engagement. That’s not a good ROI. 

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Tom Finn:

Oh, Adi, you're hitting on the notes of my heart right now. And I will tell you that engagement is one of the most important things that an organization can focus on. But it's also one of the most overutilized statements by vendors that don't actually produce results. So most vendors all talk about engagement, engagement. Fine. But let me tell you, pet insurance, life insurance, is not engagement, okay? Most rewards programs or HR platforms are not engagement. Your workday system does not create engagement in your company, no matter how many times they wanna tell you that it does. So the reality is, you have to have a partner in the engagement space that has some skin in the game, right? Trainers, mentors, coaches, systems, platforms, they're all out there. But who is actually a partner that has some skin in the game that says, if it doesn't work in your example, if I have 3% utilization, do I get some money back? Where's that contract?

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Adi Jani:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you know, you won't believe me, Tom, I've actually been to about four different seminars in the last two, two and a half months. A lot of these seminars were promoting their cloud package system, etc. I mean, those are great. Don't get me wrong. They kind of, once you've got the buy-in from the employee, they help you fulfill what you want. But it's getting the buy-in in the first place. And that was one of the most fervent questions that was asked in all of these seminars is like, okay, fine, I'll buy your product. How do I get my customers, how do I get my people to use it? So absolutely, you’re right. We need to have some skin in the game and basically to understand you have to put in the hard work. There’s no magical solution that, OK just spend $50,000 with me, buy this package, and all your problems will go away. It doesn’t work like that. That you have to have, you have to spend the time to really understand your employees. And I’m sorry, personal experience, as well. You know, in the past I’ve been working in jobs where I’ve had experiences where it’s not, so it’s really interesting because when I started one particular jobs, which I won’t name, but one particular job I started absolutely loving it. I’m loving every second of it. I would go on early, finish late, all of that. So I know, it didn’t, you know, they say when you enjoy your job, it doesn’t feel like work, it’s play. So that’s what it felt like. I spent quite a large chunk of my life there. When I left, I couldn’t wait to leave. Because I think it’s not, it’s the fact that when you start climbing the ladder of work, and more responsibilities are added on you, etc, the work culture changes. And you have to adapt to that work culture. And more so than of often, a lot of the people that are around you, especially in senior leadership, they don’t understand how to manage people. Basically, they’ve been basically told, okay, you’re a manager now, go and manage your team. They know how to do the work. They don’t know how to manage people. That’s an entirely different job. And I know, I think Simon Sinek says this really, really well. Where it’s one of his shows or one of his speeches or TED talk or something. He’s done so much, but it’s absolutely true. People don’t tell you how to manage people. And so basically the reason why I ended up leaving that job is because the, my boss essentially was creating an extremely toxic atmosphere unknowingly because it’s not his fault. He didn’t know how to manage people. I hope he does now, but like he didn’t know it back at the time, how to manage people. And so I kind of forget where I was going with this, but my whole point was that, you know, when it comes to employee engagement, you want to get your team engaged, you have to understand them. That's where I was going. That's exactly where I was going. You have to understand them.

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Tom Finn:

That's exactly right. There you go. You have to understand them. You brought it back full circle, my man. Don't worry about it. No, I think you're 100% right. You've got to understand your people. And the other part of this is that managers have not gone to manager school. There is no manager school. Now people might say, oh, I have an MBA or I've gone and got a graduate degree or have an undergraduate degree. That's not management school. They teach you the tactics of finance, accounting, organizational structures, some basics in sales methodologies, but that is not management school. And managing people is about people. It's about the human touch. It's much more emotion than it is transaction.

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Adi Jani:

The human connection. Absolutely.

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Tom Finn:

And yet you've got to have a little bit of both, but you're 100% right. Most of us have not been to management school. And that is where we end up hitting a ceiling in our career, certainly in corporate roles, where you climb, and then boom, you hit that ceiling because you don't have the skills to get to the next level.

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Adi Jani:

Absolutely. And I think the larger, I mean, the more you grow, hopefully, if your organization is doing something right, the organization is growing with you. And then it’s the same thing with an organization. It hits a ceiling where it can’t break this barrier off. And there's a lot of companies trying to break this barrier. And when I was in one of my previous roles, I actually, you know, one of the meetings I had with the CEO was like, we want to be the next billion dollar company. Right. So first it was $250 million company, then it was $500 million company, then it was 750. But it could never get past that one billion marker because in order for that to change, to happen, infrastructural change needs to happen because you’re now dealing with hundreds of people. It’s no longer a startup anymore where you have a team of 15 people or, you know, an SME even, because where you have a team of say 100 people. Now you need a team of 600, 700, a thousand people in order to break that barrier. And the more people you have, the harder it becomes to engage them because then they get pigeonholed within their own specialities. How do you bring it all together? And this is where employee engagement services can really, really benefit for a company.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, well said. I'm glad you took us there. So let's talk about you for a second. So you've done some entrepreneurial work and you've done some work in corporate roles, which is cool, I've done the same. And I think a lot of folks out there will start perhaps in corporate roles, go into entrepreneurship, come back into corporate. I mean, there's different ways to think about it. Do you think about your career as like a career with a side hustle? Or do you think about yourself as an entrepreneur with a day job? Like how do you actually frame this in your own mind?

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Adi Jani:

That’s a very interesting question actually. I see myself as, see, for me, it’s doing something that I love. So when you're talking about Gencast Live, I love doing that. I love, because of my background in jewelry as well, I've learned a lot. And so from a business perspective, as well as from a sales perspective. So I really really enjoy doing that. So it doesn’t really feel like work anymore. And same thing with my consulting, because I’m so passionate about how employees connect with their corporations. When I’m spending time with Caburn Hope, I don’t realize where the time goes either. So I think for me, making things more fun that I enjoy doing, I can do them all the time, which I pretty much do.

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Tom Finn:

Well, that's a great way to look at the world and honestly a great way to live and go through your career journey. So let's unpack GemCastLive, which is a jewelry business that you founded and operate today. So tell us a little bit about that business and where it came from.

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Adi Jani:

So the idea came from, once I moved, so I used to live in Texas, 2021 August, I moved back to the UK. My parents were over here, so I wanted to be close to family. And when I moved, I wanted to do something of my own. Like you said earlier, a lot of people who work corporate decide to become entrepreneurial, kind of my story. I wanted to have the flexibility of doing my own work whenever I wanted it. And so I wnet about setting up an app essentially, because I looked at what the market was doing and I did a bit of market research and I learned that Mcom, which is basically mobile commerce sales, were skyrocketing year on year. I identified an opportunity. And basically I used to work at a home shopping network, so I’ve got a bit of TV background. I wanted to bring that element to the mobile phone, essentially. So on the Gemcast Live Jewelry app, we run shows where you can watch on your phone and order while the presentation’s going on, essentially. So it’s basically like Amazon, yes, but it’s also got a home shopping element. So the home shopping live show is where we can actually showcase jewelry live and we give special discounts if you watch the live show, etc.

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Tom Finn:

Nice. So let's dig in a little bit. So you download the app, can I purchase from- Do I just cold purchase? Can I go on there and find jewelry and just buy it or do I have to wait for the live show?

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Adi Jani:

No, no, you can go and buy it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we don't, as it's still a startup, we don't do as many shows as we would like. We would want to get to do a show every day, but we do, currently we do every couple of weeks. So at the moment though, you can, the jewelry's there. It's like Amazon, the app as well. Just search for whatever you want. Rings, earrings, pendant, anklets, bracelets, necklace, whatever you want in different gemstones. We basically try to keep the price points low. So I think our average selling price is around 27 pounds, which is about $35, $36. And sterling, silver, vermay, gold, stainless steel, and we do some stainless steel as well as titanium steel as well. 

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Tom Finn:

Nice. So this is jewelry for everybody. This isn't super high end, you know, I've got to spend a fortune and break the bank. This is: you need a couple of pieces. You want something that's fun, that's wearable, that you can really not feel not feel too guilty about your purchase by overdoing it a little bit. Perfect.

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Adi Jani:

So I think that was very important to me. I did have the opportunity to bring in like, you know, your big, rare gemstones, and stuff like that, but the price point would just skyrocket. And I understand like right now everyone's struggling, man. And it's good to kind of keep, keep it simple and keep it affordable.

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Tom Finn:

Great lesson there. Keep it simple and keep it affordable. That's probably a good lesson for the next decade for all of us.

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Adi Jani:

Right. Yeah.

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Tom Finn:

Love the way you said that. So the gem life, we've got the consulting life, and then we do some things in... production and film. So you said at the beginning of the show, hey, I wanted to be a filmmaker. And when I was a little guy, and at some point you did some work in film. In 2011, you won the best young filmmaker award at the International Film Festival in Cardiff. So that was back in 2011, so that's over a decade ago. So tell us how you got into film and are you still fiddling around with filmmaking?

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Adi Jani:

Yeah, I love that part of my life. It's anything to do with filmmaking or even shooting blogs, et cetera. I just love filming. And the last film I made, I say I was little, but it was only in 2016. So, but it was my master's film actually. So I did my master's in filmmaking, in directing from the MetFilm School in Ealing. And the final graduate film of that was the last film I made. So I kind of, you know, I have a passion for, you know, the mezzanine scene, so to speak. Like, you know, I love being able to control what the audience sees. And basically every single object within a scene, I know right now I just have a white ball. But every single thing a person... on screen is supposed to mean something, essentially. So I love that part of filmmaking visuals. Obviously I’m a bit of a tech geek as well, So I love CGI all the Marvel movies, you know. But yeah, at the same time, it’s about not just visual storytelling but storytelling of any sort.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, look, I think that's coming through loud and clear. You love storytelling, whether it's... working on Gemcast Live, telling stories about jewelry, or working in consulting, telling stories about HR and engagement and employees really feeling like they belong at an organization because the story is right, or it's being behind the camera and really loving what you do and creating positioning for different pieces in a scene. I think storytelling is just so important in today's day and age, right? Because it's how we remember things. It's not just your passion. I mean, it's cool that it's your passion. But for the rest of us, that's actually how we remember. We just don't consciously think about it that way, right?

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Adi Jani:

Yeah, you know, it's very interesting. I think someone said this, I heard it recently, maybe a month or so ago, can't remember who exactly, but what you just said reminds me very much of that. And he said like, it’s basically memories, our memories and the stories we tell ourselves. It might not be the exact version of that happened but that’s how I remember it. Right, it's our versions of the truth, so to speak.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, yeah, which is why when you have differing opinions, and people are saying, No, I'm right. No, I'm right. You just never get anywhere because we've all told ourselves whatever it is that we want to believe anyway.

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Adi Jani:

No, yeah. I walked into that bar and I saw her hit him. No, but you never saw him punch her before. Like what? Yeah. No.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, exactly, exactly right. There's always a few sides to the story, no matter what we do. So what's next for you? I mean, where do you go from here? I mean, you've done quite a bit, and you've figured out what your purpose is, or what your passion is, at least. Have you figured out your purpose yet?

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Adi Jani:

Yes, I think I'm starting to, maybe that I still have a little bit to go, but I definitely know I wanna do basically something to do within storytelling whether I will still end up making movies, I don't know, maybe five years from now, we should have another one of these and see where I end up. But definitely telling stories I love that part of my life. And I think I... What I see and how I see things visually when I observe the world in through stories as well. I always tell people like, oh I wonder what she’s doing. I wonder what led her to this point, you know, kind of thing. But yeah next up, if you think about, I would love to do consulting work and I'm going to continue to do that. I think I’m just getting startedin this space and I think I have a long way to explore and a lot and a really, really exciting journey ahead. But I’m also looking at my other passions, such as filmmaking. So I’m looking at filmmaking as well. I’m also making a game right now. I’ve set up a little company with me and about three other guys. And we’re working on a game made in Unreal Engine, which is a fantastic free resource for any game developers out there.

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Tom Finn:

Okay, so we're working on a game, and when you say game, you don't mean the remake of Monopoly, and a board game.

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Adi Jani:

No, no, it's one of those PC console games, either PlayStation or Xbox, one of those. So at the moment I’m working on a PC game called Hyden, which is hopefully going to be a third person free roaming sort of world that it’s an original IP that I’m creating myself that I’ve been creating. Actually a little bit of history about that, I wanted to make that into a film and we ended up shooting a pilot. This was back in 2014. So that story has been swirling around in my head for a very long time, almost 10 years and I’m finally getting to make it into a game. So I'm really excited about that.

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Tom Finn:

Nice. I love it when something we do years ago comes back full circle in a different form, right? Probably, didn’t think of it in 2014 as a video game. You thought of it as a film.

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Adi Jani:

No chance.

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Tom Finn:

And now you're thinking of that story as a video game. How hard is it to set up these companies, to divide your time, to kind of have focus in different areas? Help me understand how you deal with that.

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Adi Jani:

So basically, my wife will probably disagree with me, but I consider myself sort of organized. I'm not as organized as her, but what I generally tend to do is I focus on my consulting work and basically what you first wanna make sure is you pay all your bills, right? Your rent, your bill, etc. So make sure that is given priority, but everything else kind if, you can find time for it. And like I said, if it’s play for you, it’s not work, right? So you will just find the time for it. I generally tend to spend my weekends working on my games. Maybe if I get too bored, I’ll get slightly distracted. I’ll work on some films. I’ll work on some other projects. Like I recently helped with Caburn Hope. We’re shooting this video vlog. So I was like, hey, I’m interested in doing that. So I’ve been kind of helping out with that. That’s kind of keeping me distracted. I think variety is the spice of life.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah. Well said. I agree. I think you've got to do lots of different things in your life to figure out what you want to do and what gets you going. And a lot of people have this model now around the world, which is I've got my day job, and I'm gonna perform at my day job to pay my bills, I'm gonna do a great job. But then on the weekends and at night, when I've got free time, I don't have to watch Netflix. I can be more productive in things that stimulate my mind and my heart and my soul that are good for my family and that really support the growth of human behavior, whatever it is that drives you. to really like get after it on the weekends, right? And have some fun.

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Adi Jani:

Absolutely. And you don't even realize where the time goes in that sense. You know, like, you know, it's three in the morning, like, oh, wow, I've got to, I've got to wake up at six in the morning. But hey, it doesn't feel like that.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, I love it. So what do you say to the next generation of people that are either coming out of school or looking for jobs? Do you think they go to a corporate role first, or would you encourage them to just kick the tires and be poor entrepreneurs for a while?

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Adi Jani:

Ooh, so if someone was to tell me about 20 years ago what to do, I would basically tell them have multiple options, do multiple things. And especially in today's day and age, you need more than one revenue stream essentially coming in. You need to have multiple revenue streams with such a volatile kind of climate that we're living in. It's important to not put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, I agree with that. Multiple revenue streams is always what the rich and famous talk about. Right? It doesn't matter if you're an actor, right? If you're Ryan Reynolds that now owns a soccer team, or in the Queen's English, a football team. Or- Like semi-united?

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Adi Jani:

Rexim United. Yeah, actually they've got a documentary on Disney+.

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Tom Finn:

That's right. There you go. Or you're Dwayne the Rock Johnson, who was a wrestler that became an actor, who became a comedian, who became a czar of tequila. I mean, speaking of multiple revenue streams, there's so many great examples of that, where people are really focused on finding different ways to generate revenue for themselves and put value out in the world that's differentiated. And I love that.

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Adi Jani:

Yeah. And the important thing is, I think it's, you have to try different things because not everything is going to succeed. In fact, probably 90% of the stuff is not going to succeed. But it will teach you so much about the next thing or the next thing after that, or the next thing after that. Eventually you’re going to get there. What was it? You know, PayPal was Elon Musk’s, what 47th idea or something? Before it succeeded, like those 47 guns before PayPal. So there’s before any kind of big success. And we’re all in our own independent journeys to that success.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, I agree. I think the hardest part for any entrepreneur out there Or look even if you have a corporate role you struggle with this too like dealing with failure Isn't always fun It's not always pretty there can be economic impacts social impacts family impacts Failure is not always a great day at the office. How do you how do you actually deal with that? With with an iron stomach so to speak.

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Adi Jani:

Yeah, it's a lot harder sometimes than others for sure. And especially, see, I can deal with failure if it just affects me, right? But I’m in a position in my life right now that I have a family, a wife, we have a dog, I have my parents to look after. So there's an impact. If I fail, these other people that might get impacted. So it gets a lot as you go older. But it shouldn’t, as long as you have their support, it should’nt stop you from still taking the risk.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, I love the way you look at the world, man. You've got to take the risk, but it's got to be calculated too. You don't have to do foolish things, right?

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Adi Jani:

Sure. Agreed.

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Tom Finn:

You can put money on the table. You can say, I'm going to push X amount towards this project and just see where it goes. But what you don't want to do is get flip with your cash and pour too much in where now you've created a situation where you put yourself in a bad spot. Right, that's what we're trying to avoid.

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Adi Jani:

Yeah, I just- be careful about that. Like you have to basically, there’s I think, what;s the formula is 80/20. So like, if you have 100% savings, 20% of it can be invested in your personal projects or your business idea or your creative project, whatever it is 80%, I think you can still kind of keep and just be careful with because I mean, like you said, the time is up within the next few years it will get different but you know we always have to be careful.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, well said. And we will leave it there, my friend. Great to hear about your storytelling, the life that you're leading, the work that you're doing in film and video games and consulting, all around the idea that storytelling matters. And I love the way that you're looking at the world with multiple revenue streams and your creativity. It's a wonderful way to live. So kudos for you for carving out your own path and doing it your way.

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Adi Jani:

Thank you, thank you Tom for having me and thank you guys for listening. I really appreciate it.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, Adi, so if people wanted to get in touch with you, what would be the best way that they would reach out?

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Adi Jani:

Yeah, so LinkedIn is probably the best. A-D-I-J-A-N-I, it’s my name I've got a very corporate looking picture on there. So feel free to add me, send me a connection request. I'd love to hear from you if you had any questions or just wanted to say hello.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, if you wanna make a movie or if you wanna engage employees or if you wanna work on a video game with Adi, he's the guy to check in with. He's got a diverse background. So we love hearing these stories, my man. And thank you again and best of luck with your next adventure.

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Adi Jani:

Thank you, sir. It's a pleasure being here.

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Tom Finn:

And thank you for tuning into the Talent Empowerment Podcast. We hope you've unpacked a few tips and tricks to love your job, find your side hustle, find your creative juices. Get ready to dive back into all things career and happiness on the next episode. We'll see you then.