Next Gen Health Scanning

Invest in people and relationships. Persevere. Keep going. Maintain your determination and make sure you have an iron stomach along the way. And most importantly, execute, you can't dream big dreams and not have your hands do anything. You absolutely have to learn how to execute. Dr. Gil Travish shares his advice for other enthronements. He shares his journey with ViBo Health, and why his new technology is going to change our Health procedures. 

Talking Points:

{02:10} The journey to ViBo Health

{04:00} The technology behind ViBo Health

{06:00} What sets ViBo Health apart from existing tools?

{09:15} What stage of development ViBo Health is currently?

{26:10} Learning from mistakes.

{30:00} The inspiration in the journey

{33:40} Lessons learned in the journey. 

Resources and Links:

• Website: https://www.vibo.health/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/giltravish/

Connect with Tom Finn

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/therealtomfinn/
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Welcome to the Talent Empowerment Podcast, where we share the stories of glorious humans so you can lift up your organizations, your teams, and your community. I am your humble host, Tom Finn, and on the show today we have a Doctor of Physics whose goal is to transform healthcare into something truly personalized precise, and foresighted. Doctor Gil Travis lives in Lisbon, Portugal. Don't be jealous. And Gil, we are thrilled to have you on the show, welcome.

Thank you; it's wonderful. Thank you. It's truly wonderful to be among the wonderful guests you had. Thank you.  

Well Gil We are thrilled to listen to your story, and for those of you that haven't had a chance to meet, we are especially grateful. Gil, let me introduce you to him.

He works in the commercialization of technology and medical devices and has been the founder of four past companies. Yes, he founded four businesses.

He is the CEO Of ViBo Health. That's his active company today that works in non-invasive health tracking, so if you're interested in non-invasive health tracking, Gil is the man for you. He most recently, before that, co-founded and served as a board member and chief science officer of Adaptix Limited, which is a novel X-ray medical imaging company, and he did that for the past 10 years. If you're wondering if he's got degrees, he's got a handful.

And he's also a fellow and lifetime member of the American Physical Society. Doctor Travish has a long track record of presenting at and publishing in various journals and conferences around the world, along with patenting. And Gil has experience working and living in multiple countries, so he knows the US. He knows Italy, He knows the UK and certainly lives in Portugal today, so he has a very well-rounded background and is an entrepreneur at heart.

Before we get into your story about developing businesses and the people you've met and the things you've done, tell us a little bit about Vibo Health to get us grounded in what you're doing.

Yeah, well, Tom, what we're really trying to do is answer a very basic question that all of us often have, which is, "How are we doing?" How's our health?”

And I mentioned it to you before we started the show. You know, I've got a little stiff neck. Is that something serious? It's probably not right, but it would be. It would. It would be nice to know.

What we do is create a tabletop scanner. That noninvasively measures what's going on by measuring our finger. And it reads these metabolites, which are directly causally connected to our health states. So, unlike some other measures, which are, you know, just suggestive of how we're doing. We're really getting deep into what's going on, and you can think of it as analogous to a blood test. You're perfect the way you are. would go to the doctor and get lab tests for that would reveal what's going on—cholesterol, etc.

We can provide you with similar early warnings. We can tell you how you're doing with your fitness and keep track of that over time because it's quick, easy, and effectively done at a low cost to the end user.

And I have a little model of the device, so you can see it here. You just put your finger in it. And after about 10 minutes and 30 seconds, it gives you a reading that you update on your phone. You get a health score and any notices about things like, as you said, early warnings about pre-diabetes or other fitness states and nutritional states.

And for those listening and not watching on YouTube. Gil just held up a small device that looked It looks like a toaster that is half the size and has a little spot to put your finger into; it appears to sit on a countertop, and the white set of plastic outside is where you can stick your finger In.

So, what happens when I stick my finger in there Gil?

You won't feel anything. It's the same technology that's used in magnetic resonance. You use it when you go into the doughnut to Get an image. Except that this is called magnetic resonance spectroscopy, and the spectroscopy side is this tissue composition analysis.

So, we go in and measure various parts of the finger. So, we look at blood, we look at bone, we look at fat and muscle, and we quantify key metabolites. These are familiar things, like cholesterol, Glucose, glutamine, and glutamate Citrate lactate, for example.

And we provide you with a composite score, so you don't have to think about what the various levels mean. They give you a composite score and track. that over time. So, in terms of the user experience, once you've registered like any other service, you just come up to the machine, which will live at pharmacies and gyms. Hopefully, you'll be able to walk right into supermarkets and larger businesses. Tap in. Put your finger in for several seconds; gives you a green light. Take it out, you're done, and you know your dashboard on your phone has been updated a minute later.

So how is this distinct from the devices with which we are all familiar on a global scale, such as the traditional Fitbit, which may have been one of the early devices that we all saw followed by our friends in the Bay Area, Apple has developed a watch that now tracks what blood pressure and other components of heart rates are certainly under stress, including standing, and all those things that the Apple Watch helps support?

So how is this different, or better yet, unique, from those existing tools?

These wearables are incredible. Right, you. They've progressed from single-purpose devices, which you'd only use if you had a very specific reason, as you're aware. Gym Rat fitness enthusiasts now simply being… have so many different functions and features. They do them very well. There's almost no reason not to have one of these, isn't there?

So, we don't see ourselves as a replacement for wearables. quite the opposite. We see ourselves as being highly complementary. To them, the wearables are limited in what they can do by virtue of their size and the types of sensors they have. They all use fairly basic optical sensors or infrared sensors for motion. and a couple of other things like skin resistance, so they're quite superficial in what they can measure. They can't go deep.

On the other hand, our device is quite expensive, which is why it's hosted by these sites, and it's quite large. bit larger, right? I've mentioned that kind of toaster-size, so it's not something that you would cart around with you.

And the reason we believe these are really complementary is that the watch or wearable is constantly providing you with feedback on things like your activity or other things that are of interest to you, and the question is, how do you know if something is relevant or not? So, we give you that. That's the information that we can really dig deeper into and tell you. Is there a problem with your metabolism? Is there a problem with your cholesterol levels? Is there a problem with something else?

We don't cross into diagnosis when we leave the clinicians and the medical community. But we tell you whether it's relevant to go there or whether other readings from other devices are telling you something, significant or not. And now, with all this longitudinal data, you can act as an empowered consumer.

That might mean at home, a lot of people are averse to going to the doctor. Whatever the timing and availability, Fear of, you know, needles, et cetera. They may choose to do an ad hoc test. Usually, we would encourage people to go see, you know, a relevant professional.

But it's not just for negative things; it's also for positive things like the fitness program you're doing. How well are you doing? How well is your recovery going? How good is your nutrition? We can give you data on those who are simply unavailable in other ways.

Yes, that is well said, and there are many people. Certainly, at the beginning of the year, people are focused on their health, their weight, and their measurements.

Right?  

This is a new year and a new you, and it gives people the opportunity to take their measurements to a deeper level than, as you said, sort of surface-level sensors that do a good job of developing some level of information. But this sensor and this machine actually get under the hood So to speak. It is really measuring more core components of your health, wellness, and recovery as well, which is terrific.

So, if I'm correct, I'm listening to this while sitting in Lisbon, LA, or somewhere in between; how do I get my hands on something like this? Where do I go to pick this up, or are you guys still in the development stage?

Yeah, we're still in development, and if you want to get your hands on one, you should invest in us because that will accelerate. It's time to go to market. So yeah, there's still a journey to go, and we see ourselves first targeting some special applications, which I can describe a bit later.

And then really going after it. What I call general health and one of the most obvious things that will have a huge impact is pre-diabetic screening, because the two illnesses that are probably the most prevalent and silent are hypertension, you know. High blood pressure. And diabetes, which, until it becomes very serious, does not provide much of an indicator.

And in the case of both—well, really, in the case of both— But let's focus. Treat diabetes. You can do a lot about it. There are a lot of great ways to reverse that and not become diabetic. Or if you're diabetic, there are really good ways to control that, and if we can reduce the need for finger pricking, we can find those pre-diabetics before they become diabetic. We've done a massive job just now in that. So that is our genuine hope. Will be showing up at pharmacies, and you know about health clubs and other places. that people frequent.

Yeah, it feels like this would be a really easy thing to have in a primary care setting as well. When I go see my primary care physician, I do my annual checkup as a part of that exercise. You know, while I'm waiting in the room for 45 minutes by myself, looking at my phone, I can stick my finger in this machine and get a general readout of some of the leading indicators. For my own personal health journey, which can be recorded in both ways, I would imagine in the app and linked to an electronic medical record within the doctor's setting, which could provide my primary care physician with a little bit more information while I'm sitting there rather than going out to a lab setting and drawing blood. You know, waiting 10 days to get that back and then receiving the dreaded phone call or voicemail from the doctor that goes something like this: Hey, everything's good; you look great; see you next year. Or could you please call our office?

Let's see, it's one of those voicemails. and we've all had them.

I'm currently waiting for one of those. So, I know the pain. We know we are really sensitive to the data overload that clinicians face, and they're not particularly keen on their clients, their patients, arrive with a slew of Internet printouts and other data that may or may not be relevant because it adds. It increases their cognitive load.

However, if we can demonstrate that what we're producing is this missing link, this longitudinal data, then that is, if not clinical grade, all but clinical meaning that it really has a high degree of specificity and a low false-positive rate... low false negative rate as well. It's good enough to aid in the diagnosis and reinforce the kind of decisions that doctors need to make.

Then they'll accept it, but not until we reach that threshold, we don't want to burden them with it. And so is our point of view of it is to go out there directly and inform the consumer who can take action, most of those actions are going to be a good job keep doing what you're doing, or now's the time to do something, because a lot of it is timing.

No one wants to just randomly go to the doctor, but if you think there's a real need to, you might overcome that threshold of annoyance and go do it.

Also, again, the positive side is How do you know that what you're doing, whether it's a diet program or a fitness program, is really working? A lot of diet programs, if they're responsible, do not reduce your weight in any obvious way for quite a while. In fact, they may not even focus on weight loss. It might have something to do with You know about sugar intake, salt intake, and other parameters, but you don't have a really great way to maintain that compliance because you're not seeing anything visible. We give it to you; we make the invisible visible and we help you maintain that compliance by saying, "Hey." This really is having an impact, keep going.

Yeah, I love the way that that sounds. Being able to better understand what's going on in my body and better understand a track record of my health journey within an app there are certainly many apps that are trying to do this.

But I believe your model is distinct or advanced in that it is simple and straightforward, and that you have a device into which you can insert your finger, and Gil has assured me that there will be no pricking of the finger. You’re not going to bleed; you know there's none of that. It's just very simple using this MRS Model to take a diagnostic of what's going on in your body and then report it on the app, and I think it's just that next level of health and wellness and overall well-being, and maybe even a little bit of peace of mind along the way.

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, that's a really big deal, right? To just know everything's good. I'm OK. I may not feel 100% this today for whatever reason, but I'm OK. That's a big deal.

So, go check it out. ViBo Health. If you're interested in emerging market technology and you're interested in understanding what's coming from these great scientists and physicians around the world.

This is a great one to start thinking about, and if you're really rich, and you're looking for smart investments, you could invest in a smarter guy than Gil Travis. So check him out as well and try to understand what he's doing. So that kind of leads to…

I just want to announce our new head of investments, Tom Finn, here.

Well, I appreciate that.

But thank you for those kind words.

I think I'm just smart enough to know, you know, good technology when I see it and to understand that, you know, we're all trying to figure out this health journey together, and we're trying to get better at it without invasive procedures in terms of preventive health and this are really important. It is a really cool thing if we can get this to market. So, I think the back story here is of equal importance because you didn't wake up this morning and say, "Hey, I've got this great company, and we're charging forward."

So where did this all start for you? How did you get here?

Ah well.  

Where does one begin?

I think to summarize, I've always been interested in technology and science, and when the opportunity arose, I took advantage of it. I went with a more traditional route for someone who wants to go into physics. You know, I got my undergraduate degree. It was physics. I was lucky enough to do some research, and then I went and did my graduate degree also in Physics.

I then I did a postdoc. also, in physics. And then I went, and Argonne National Lab hired me, and I was able to do a junior scientist and a research group. Fantastic work. And that whole time, my journey was, I would say, quite traditional for someone who is interested in physics research, which I was, and still am

Along the way, I got a little taste of the start-up world. So, the first taste was very bitter.

It was in fact, it was during my postdoctoral fellowship in Italy, which was a fantastic experience, but it was during the dot-com era. Every time I went back home to the US, everything seemed to be moving at a rate of ten. Right on time, and everyone had two cell phones. They were all running around. Do you know anything about starting businesses?

Is that what those times of the BlackBerry gill Is that what I was looking at? My BlackBerry Or, you know, Jay-Z, I think, had a blueberry. Were those the days that we were talking about?

I think so. Yeah, that's. If you were cool, you had a BlackBerry. Otherwise, you just had a flip phone. I felt like I had missed out because I kind of wanted to be part of that excitement. I was kind of stuck in the lab. But that didn't dissuade me, I only saw how things were.

A little bit of Later, I did get a real taste of that and explored a game company with a colleague of mine who's an engineer. The game was a bit similar to what eventually became Pokémon Go, the idea that you go out into the real world and do things didn't get very far, but wow, it was fun to do, and it was. It was exciting to pitch the idea to investors.

And it kind of got me hooked, and things progressed from there. From one thought to the next, I didn't have the right background. I didn't have business sense back then. We were… I was lucky all along the way and got the right introductions, but I made all the stupid mistakes I was introduced to I think it's a single digit hire someone at Amazon to help me on the retail side, and didn't know what to do with the guy he didn't. Know what to do with me.

You know, so yeah, I learned the hard way along the way, and then I went back to do the research that you mentioned, and that was very fulfilling, but I always wanted to do something else with the, you know, entrepreneurial side.

And we ended up spinning out a company with it. was great, but It's still going. But that company was very much in the field, very much doing the kind of work we were doing back at the university. When I was, I wanted to explore something different, but the opportunity didn't come up for quite a while.

Some technology came out of my research lab, and it really looked like it had huge potential. And I began looking for it. This is something that is now considered to be fairly common at the time. This is now being done that was not done 15 years ago. As you might expect, this happens quite frequently. And the idea that you have something interesting, and you have to kind of hunt around and find the right connector, find the right person to go with, who would be interested in this, so I did that, which took some time. Many people are "not interested," "wrong," "wrong field," "wrong time," or "wrong whatever.

Finally, I was introduced to a guy who became my business partner, and that was the start of Adaptix. That technology led to along with many other innovations led to 3D X-ray imaging that Adaptix produces, etc. a set of devices or a set of technologies that has the potential to impact just about everyone because almost everyone at one point or another gets an X-ray.

And you know how exciting that was. That's the plan. We, as a company, and a group of individuals can contribute to something that will. Go into the clinic, which is currently open, and be able to improve people's outcomes and their lives because of, you know, reduced costs fewer missed diagnoses: a better diagnosis of that was just fantastic.

That also gave me the background and depth of experience on medical devices, what it takes for regulatory matters, the kind of other compliance you need to do, and the very long pathway that's involved.

And so, I decided then and there that I would never do that again because it is difficult and long. In fact, I decided that it was time to exit the company and go off and travel the world, and then COVID hit. And so those plans got put on hold, as many people's plans were obviously derailed during those days.

But that gave me an opportunity to do a lot of deep reading and studying. And I learned about the power of metabolomics, which is one of the omics, and how that lets you really connect these metabolite levels to the pathways in humans and other animals and what they are concerned about their health. They're exhibiting the right behavior. What kind of conditions do they have or what kind of health status do they have?

That made me realize that an old idea of mine has some potential. I notice there's a gap in the market. There's a technical gap. And that all started to come together. I reached out to some colleagues and said, "Well, what do you think of this?" Am I completely off the mark? And it kind of evolved from there, so that kind of led to yet another company getting formed, which was unexpected, and I didn't think I would do that again.

I have to tell you something. This journey from an entrepreneurial standpoint is just absolutely fantastic, and here's why.

There are a few key points in your story, Gil, that are absolutely critical for other people to understand. First and foremost, you took the leap of faith. And you said I have domain expertise in a particular science. It doesn't have to be science. It could be anything but particular domain expertise, and then you were willing. You were absolutely willing to take the leap. Try something, and you are OK. If it failed, correct?

Because failure was going to push you to the next venture, and I think as entrepreneurs, as people who are building businesses, we have to be willing to do that. If we fail, we have to be willing to I think you put it this way. I met with a person from Amazon who was a single-digit employee number, right? So, for those, while driving, you're doing your mouth on your fingers. That means somewhere between one and nine.

Okay, so this was a complete deviation from what you said, right? I can see the yellow Wiffle ball bat and the Wiffle ball swinging through the air wherever I can. Just gliding past the bats as you miss out on this Amazon early-stage opportunity.

And it's those things that we look back on and let go of. Oh man, it would have been great if I would have hit that, but The reality is that it builds and builds and builds on itself, ultimately leading to success, whatever that looks like for you, whether it's financial, whether it's peace of mind, whether it's traveling the world, whether it's building a family, whatever, whatever success looks like for you as an individual, will come to your plate if you just keep swinging that proverbial yellow bat.

I think that's a great point. People overestimate the risk factor. They also underestimate the danger of doing nothing. You know it's really easy to get laid off from a super stable company, tens of thousands of tech workers who worked for fantastic companies are being laid off today. So now in many of their cases. They're going to be hired again soon because they have talent that's in high demand, but not everyone. Some people are going to have It's had a difficult time with it, which is never good. feeling and is never a good position to be in.

The same is true for the business you start. It can fail. And you might end up without a job. Whether you have a job or not, you know what to do and have learned a lot. And you get up, go, and do something else.

Now the caveat to that is of course, you must do so financial stability is required for this, which may imply that you're still in your early career, have a small savings account, and don't mind couch surfing.

Or that you've achieved a little more financial success. You know about savings and backing, and it's OK to take that bigger risk, but I think we make too much of the risk factor. I don't believe it's a real risk. This is somebody doing something, actually. This is dangerous. Someone is going. Let me explore; let me see where I can take this. And the only risk is, well, how it feels internally.

Yeah, I agree with you. It is a perceived risk, which is what you said It's starting your own company can have a perceived risk because you think Oh my gosh, I could be making $80,000 a year, 250,000 or 400 whatever the number is, that's within your lane.

You think… My goodness, I could be making that, but I'm going to take a. year and make Well, Gil, for those of us that are entrepreneurs, you make $0 right out of the gate, but what you're building is equity in a brand you're building equity in a product or service? You're building something for the future, whereas with most companies, you start at $0 every year, right? Or as you said very eloquently stated. You're attempting to keep your job during layoffs, possibly working with people who don't inspire you or creating things that don't really motivate you to get out of bed in the morning.

And so, being an entrepreneur and being focused on entrepreneurship is a skill in and of itself. I've got to have a little bit of ability to take some risk from a financial standpoint, but I wouldn't change it for the world. I'll tell you, I'm a different guy because I took the leap of faith to start my own company.

Right, and it's not for everyone, or at least It's not for everyone at all times, right? You have to be in a position to say OK now… now I'm good. I can do this. I know enough people that I can fall back on and people who can help me out along the way, and I'm open to learning those lessons.

I have learned those lessons, over and over and over, yeah. I don't think anyone ever finishes, right? You don't. You don't go well. I know everything. There is a lot to know about how to work with people. No, you don't even scratch the surface, right?

So let me ask you a question. Who is on your journey? Who inspired you? Who led you down this path, knowing you were a part of four companies along the way?

I should have an answer, but I don't.

I think I was very lucky that I was surrounded by people who were really driven. Whose interests were they always pursuing what they thought was the best thing?

Everyone from my parents to me either wanted to or perceived it as the best path. There are a number of teachers that I can recall who really, you know, were inspirational, as well as colleagues and students around me at university or a research institute, you notice certain things. People whom you know …  Wow, that person is just so switched on. And things are looking up so far. at what they do and are so enthusiastic about solving problems, right? They're not there to pick up a paycheck or whatever or punch the clock. They're there to make an impact.

And that always, you know, makes you strive more and go higher. There were key people along the way. I had a very close business center who… died a number of years ago, but he did. started out as having to kind of do a lot. Of you know. Smacking the hand on the head and going… Gill, it’s business; you've got to do this. You've got to know just the basics, and eventually, it just became a friendship, and we would meet for lunch. And very often, we would never even talk. Hang out. And, as you know, he was a huge influence. As were many others along the way.

I think in terms of, like, inspiration. You probably know people who are going out there. Simply having a huge impact makes you go "wow. “That would be really great to try to do something like that. It hasn't arrived yet, but you know it is working hard.

Well, I think you're on the right track, and your point is well taken that, at times, there isn't a single person we can point to, and we scratch our heads thinking…. Is there anyone who has helped me along the way, and if so, who is it? It's probably not.

There are many people that have helped you along your journey, as well as being a part of teams and cultures that inspire us and lift us up to just be the best version of ourselves when we show up to work and when we're at home with family and friends.

And so, I tend to find it critically important to be a part of really good cultures at work so that you can be surrounded by like-minded people that are moving you forward.

Yeah, absolutely. Culture is critical.

And when it forms organically and is healthy, that's the best; but that doesn't always happen. I've been doing this long enough that now some of the people that came to me for help, whether it was in a formal mentoring sense or just, you know, some guidance and advice, are now able to guide me and provide advice, so it's fantastic because I can reach out to people whom I've known for years and go... You used to be just like my student or someone who was my mentee… But now you have enough experience on your own and you can tell me. I mean, you're just as good a sounding board as anyone out there, and that's happened several times now, and it's fantastic.

So, when you consider all of the people who have accompanied you on your journey, and you think about where you are today? Is there a lesson that you've learned there? Is there anything in particular that you think about on a weekly or monthly basis? How does that work in your mind? Just sort of find that inspiration.

I believe there are a few elements present, and the first one that comes to mind is people, right?

People are very complex. They change over time. You don't know what's going on. Really, in their lives, right? They may not even know, and it is difficult to navigate those things. True, but you have to; have to actively do so. But you're not managing. You are working on relationships is something you know is true in your personal life, but is it true in business?

You don't know that you're confronting someone when you come in and ask for a simple thing from someone or when you're trying to partner with someone, what are their concerns? Alternatively, if you have an employee. You know, are they going to be able to work well? Well, what's going on in their lives, so you know. But yeah, you can't cross too far in, so there's a constant tension there that that one is trying to work on and do better. And you know, it certainly doesn't come naturally to me.

I am not a people person in that sense. You know this is work, right? I have to remind myself every day that you don't know what this person's going through. And maybe you're having a great day, or maybe not, and you need to account for that. Yes, it's never-ending work.

Perseverance is another one, and it sounds simple because you just keep doing what? It's not you, but it's difficult because, you know, it tends to be a lonely journey. And so I kind of break that down in a lot of different ways. Ways I look at it and say, Well, first of all, so and so has been able to do this, so you should be able to do it. Not everything is going to be linear. Not everything's going to go well, today, and then all of a sudden You know, maybe tomorrow somebody will reach out again. Then things pop out at you. You didn't do that. Expect, right?

There were a lot of setbacks with ViBo Health that occurred in the beginning You know, just them. Were they unexpected, and what is causing this? Maybe COVID was part of the explanation. Maybe it was just a bad approach. You'd think that after doing it a few times, I'd have a better, smoother journey, but that wasn't the case. It was just as difficult as every other start-up.

I think. The final thing is execution. You know it all comes down to how well you can execute. And I really wish someone could hand me a wand or something to figure out how to do that. I don't see any other way except kind of… Sure, there are best practices and all that. But there isn't one…. There seems to be a magical path to making execution better. I am open to learning.

Yes, if you're summarizing what Gil said.

It is people. Find the right people to work with and invest in people and relationships.

Perseverance. Keep going. Maintain your determination and make sure you have an iron stomach along the way. And third, and of equal importance, execution: you can't dream big dreams and not have your hands do anything. You absolutely have to learn how to execute.

And if you put yourself in the right circles, if you've got an iron stomach, and if you can execute, your business will be successful. It might take you longer than you thought, but your business will be successful.

"You absolutely require those three things," Gil said. And thanks for wrapping up this conversation with an exclamation point. It would be a great idea if I was listening to the show today and I was in Lisbon and wanted to take you out to lunch. How would somebody get in contact with you if they wanted to invest, meet you, or just generally follow you? How would they do that?

So, you can easily search for me online because I do show up pretty easily. Gil Travish. You can shoot me an email. Email is the best way, thanks to a recent program we were in, which is the Care and Space accelerator. There are videos available with links to them. Company and all that, so it should be pretty easy to find us, but definitely, if you want to just throw me an e-mail or send, you know, a link on a LinkedIn request, Those are the two best places.

Yeah, beautifully said. It's Gil Travis or Travis. We will put his LinkedIn in the show notes, so that'll be available for everybody, and we will make sure that you can get in contact with Doctor Travis. I can't thank you enough for the work that you're doing. The journey that you've been on and the forward momentum that you're promoting. So that we all can live better lives and have a better understanding of our health. So from there Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I am grateful for the work you are doing.

Tom, thank you for the opportunity to speak here and to, you know, share this message. But I think there are people are interested and want to contribute. We are very open to collaboration or working with others, so this is a fantastic opportunity for us as a platform for that.

Yeah, beautifully said, and thank you, Gil, for joining us again for the Talent Empowerment Podcast, and for my friends out there, thank you for joining us today. I hope this conversation has lifted you up so you can lift up your teams and your organizations and have an idea of what's coming down the road in terms of wearable models in healthcare are all of that good stuff that's going to make us better at it? What we do every day Let's get back to people and culture and execution, and we'll see you on the next episode.   Thank you, Gil. We'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.